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	<title>Comments on: Shape and flex pattern</title>
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	<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/</link>
	<description>Custom Ski Stoke</description>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-3705</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 20:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-3705</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Pete. Yes, I know that skis originated long before Norwegians began farming in Telemark, but the Telemark farmers appear to have invented sidecut and camber. So that&#039;s where I started.
A strong argument is to be made that the first skis originated in Central Asia, near the Altai region. A good source for information on prehistoric skiing is Roland Huntford&#039;s book Two Planks and a Passion. See http://www.amazon.com/Two-Planks-Passion-Dramatic-History/dp/1441134018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1322768698&amp;sr=1-1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Pete. Yes, I know that skis originated long before Norwegians began farming in Telemark, but the Telemark farmers appear to have invented sidecut and camber. So that&#8217;s where I started.<br />
A strong argument is to be made that the first skis originated in Central Asia, near the Altai region. A good source for information on prehistoric skiing is Roland Huntford&#8217;s book Two Planks and a Passion. See <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Two-Planks-Passion-Dramatic-History/dp/1441134018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&#038;ie=UTF8&#038;qid=1322768698&#038;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Two-Planks-Passion-Dramatic-History/dp/1441134018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&#038;ie=UTF8&#038;qid=1322768698&#038;sr=1-1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-3700</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 14:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-3700</guid>
		<description>Here history lesson for you, Seth: Skis first appeared in many places in the North of Fenno-Scandia, Karelia and also in Kola Peninsula (last two belong to Russia). In Norway first pictures found from Alta, Norway; but it is Finnmark, huge area in Norway. Traditionaly there live etnic Finns and Sami people. Very similar situation in Sweden and Finland, there area called Lapland/Lappland indicating Lapp, Sami people:) In Russia live geneticaly very different people now days. Ancient people you mentioned, were no farmers, but hunters and fisherman for thousand of years. Good, when teachers first their own lesson first before teaching and telling the Great Truth to their students:) Your history lesson sounds like Americans discovered America:) May be you can teach English language to non-native speakers, but no history. You do not recheck info you have found from internet:) Cheers, Pete BTW, I do not live in Fenno-Scandia, but I checked the info, which appeared to be misleading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here history lesson for you, Seth: Skis first appeared in many places in the North of Fenno-Scandia, Karelia and also in Kola Peninsula (last two belong to Russia). In Norway first pictures found from Alta, Norway; but it is Finnmark, huge area in Norway. Traditionaly there live etnic Finns and Sami people. Very similar situation in Sweden and Finland, there area called Lapland/Lappland indicating Lapp, Sami people:) In Russia live geneticaly very different people now days. Ancient people you mentioned, were no farmers, but hunters and fisherman for thousand of years. Good, when teachers first their own lesson first before teaching and telling the Great Truth to their students:) Your history lesson sounds like Americans discovered America:) May be you can teach English language to non-native speakers, but no history. You do not recheck info you have found from internet:) Cheers, Pete BTW, I do not live in Fenno-Scandia, but I checked the info, which appeared to be misleading.</p>
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		<title>By: How the right ski can help &#124; skiyoungernow</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-3331</link>
		<dc:creator>How the right ski can help &#124; skiyoungernow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-3331</guid>
		<description>[...] That’s the basics. Next time, I’ll consider the relationship between shape and flex pattern. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] That’s the basics. Next time, I’ll consider the relationship between shape and flex pattern. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: E-Man</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>E-Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-413</guid>
		<description>Dear Seth,

Do you know the procedure to custom mold your skiis or board from standard camber into reverse camber. I figure it is just the combination of heat and weight but if you know any tips or tricks please feel free to fill me or us in.

thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Seth,</p>
<p>Do you know the procedure to custom mold your skiis or board from standard camber into reverse camber. I figure it is just the combination of heat and weight but if you know any tips or tricks please feel free to fill me or us in.</p>
<p>thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-264</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve smiled seeing the word &#039;rocker&#039; being used inthe ski/snowboard industry. It&#039;s a flash from the surf industry. surfboard / sailboards couldn&#039;t be decambered so &#039;shape&#039; for turning w/ for and aft rocker. Whenthe word rocker was being used solely bythe surf industry the ski industry was building skis w/ camber.  Decambering the ski, and bending it INTO the snow resulted in fore and aft rocker.

When we finally decided that carving skis was more desirable to pivoting skis, and that up and down was not as efficient as over and against shape became the issue. That was when snowboarding hadn&#039;t received wide acceptance.

Now that snowboarding thinks that skiing is a derivative of it (rather than the opposite), and riders have part surfer in their souls the word &#039;Rocker&#039; emerges in the sport.

Rocker helps the ski not &#039;dive&#039; in the deep and wet (fore and aft shape).... like on a windsurfer: inside edge and ride the shape no finesse of pressure required.

Now, what I don&#039;t get .......... my boards all had graphite stringers so that the board would not flex...... (how many boards did I break at HO-o-KE-pa by coming over the wave and landing flat NOT riding the rocker?) is why anyone would rather be &#039;ON&quot; the ski than &#039;vs&quot; the ski ..but there again is where personal preference plays a role.

Ryan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve smiled seeing the word &#8216;rocker&#8217; being used inthe ski/snowboard industry. It&#8217;s a flash from the surf industry. surfboard / sailboards couldn&#8217;t be decambered so &#8216;shape&#8217; for turning w/ for and aft rocker. Whenthe word rocker was being used solely bythe surf industry the ski industry was building skis w/ camber.  Decambering the ski, and bending it INTO the snow resulted in fore and aft rocker.</p>
<p>When we finally decided that carving skis was more desirable to pivoting skis, and that up and down was not as efficient as over and against shape became the issue. That was when snowboarding hadn&#8217;t received wide acceptance.</p>
<p>Now that snowboarding thinks that skiing is a derivative of it (rather than the opposite), and riders have part surfer in their souls the word &#8216;Rocker&#8217; emerges in the sport.</p>
<p>Rocker helps the ski not &#8216;dive&#8217; in the deep and wet (fore and aft shape)&#8230;. like on a windsurfer: inside edge and ride the shape no finesse of pressure required.</p>
<p>Now, what I don&#8217;t get &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. my boards all had graphite stringers so that the board would not flex&#8230;&#8230; (how many boards did I break at HO-o-KE-pa by coming over the wave and landing flat NOT riding the rocker?) is why anyone would rather be &#8216;ON&#8221; the ski than &#8216;vs&#8221; the ski ..but there again is where personal preference plays a role.</p>
<p>Ryan</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-262</guid>
		<description>The rocker is a way to make a very big heavy stable ski feel reasonably agile, but the solution only works in deep snow.  The rocker makes the ski inherently unstable on any kind of firm surface -- and severely limits the &quot;bite&quot; area of climbing skins. So the rockered ski is a one-trick pony, best suited for bottomless snow.

BTW, the rockered powder ski isn&#039;t exactly a new invention. Those of us who learned to ski powder on GS race skis -- and that includes anyone who learned to ski powder before 1990 -- eventually wound up skiing on a bent metal ski. Sometimes you wouldn&#039;t figure out it was bent until the tail end of a great powder season. During the years I taught at Squaw Valley, my favorite ski for deep wet Sierra Cement was a pair of Atomic 635RS, the fluorescent-pink successor to the famous Red Sled. Several years of descents through Magoo&#039;s Madness off Emigrant&#039;s northeast nose bent both skis back into a smooth rocker, without affecting powder performance. But the skis were scary on the last blast across groomers to the locker room.

Another approach to this problem was pioneered by Mike Brunetto. He reasoned that in order for the shovel to float up in powder, either the tail had to sink or bend. You can make the tail sink by making it narrow, but that doesn&#039;t help overall float or turn shape -- so he built a ski with a very soft, resilient tail, and called it the Heliski. It was hugely popular among deep powder freaks in the &#039;80s, before fat skis appeared (the Heliski had a traditional GS shape). If you think about it, making the tail soft has the same effect as building in a rocker: you get heroic performance in powder at the price of grip and stability on hard snow.

Seth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rocker is a way to make a very big heavy stable ski feel reasonably agile, but the solution only works in deep snow.  The rocker makes the ski inherently unstable on any kind of firm surface &#8212; and severely limits the &#8220;bite&#8221; area of climbing skins. So the rockered ski is a one-trick pony, best suited for bottomless snow.</p>
<p>BTW, the rockered powder ski isn&#8217;t exactly a new invention. Those of us who learned to ski powder on GS race skis &#8212; and that includes anyone who learned to ski powder before 1990 &#8212; eventually wound up skiing on a bent metal ski. Sometimes you wouldn&#8217;t figure out it was bent until the tail end of a great powder season. During the years I taught at Squaw Valley, my favorite ski for deep wet Sierra Cement was a pair of Atomic 635RS, the fluorescent-pink successor to the famous Red Sled. Several years of descents through Magoo&#8217;s Madness off Emigrant&#8217;s northeast nose bent both skis back into a smooth rocker, without affecting powder performance. But the skis were scary on the last blast across groomers to the locker room.</p>
<p>Another approach to this problem was pioneered by Mike Brunetto. He reasoned that in order for the shovel to float up in powder, either the tail had to sink or bend. You can make the tail sink by making it narrow, but that doesn&#8217;t help overall float or turn shape &#8212; so he built a ski with a very soft, resilient tail, and called it the Heliski. It was hugely popular among deep powder freaks in the &#8217;80s, before fat skis appeared (the Heliski had a traditional GS shape). If you think about it, making the tail soft has the same effect as building in a rocker: you get heroic performance in powder at the price of grip and stability on hard snow.</p>
<p>Seth</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Wagner</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-257</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a lot of &quot;rockered&quot; camber ski designs hitting the market this season.  What are the advantages and disadvantages of these rockered skis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot of &#8220;rockered&#8221; camber ski designs hitting the market this season.  What are the advantages and disadvantages of these rockered skis?</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Masia</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Masia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-244</guid>
		<description>The short answer: No. There&#039;s no easy way to tell if the ski is too stiff or too soft. You have to trust that the factory did the design job properly and that the shop&#039;s recommendation is savvy. A lot of skiers wind up on more ski than they need or can use -- along with oversize boots, it&#039;s one of the big reasons people struggle in challenging snow conditions.

If you&#039;re unsure about the appropriate ski flex and torsion for the snow you want to ski, that&#039;s a good reason to get really expert advice. Or to get a ski designed just for you.

I&#039;ll have more to say about this when I talk about sizing skis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The short answer: No. There&#8217;s no easy way to tell if the ski is too stiff or too soft. You have to trust that the factory did the design job properly and that the shop&#8217;s recommendation is savvy. A lot of skiers wind up on more ski than they need or can use &#8212; along with oversize boots, it&#8217;s one of the big reasons people struggle in challenging snow conditions.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re unsure about the appropriate ski flex and torsion for the snow you want to ski, that&#8217;s a good reason to get really expert advice. Or to get a ski designed just for you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have more to say about this when I talk about sizing skis.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Wagner</title>
		<link>http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/2008/shape-and-flex-pattern/comment-page-1/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 05:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wagnerskis.com/blog/?p=73#comment-242</guid>
		<description>Seth - 

If I&#039;m at a ski shop and looking to get a pair of skis, is there an easy way for me to determine whether or not a ski has an appropriate flex for me?  What about torsional rigidity?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth &#8211; </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m at a ski shop and looking to get a pair of skis, is there an easy way for me to determine whether or not a ski has an appropriate flex for me?  What about torsional rigidity?</p>
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